He certainly taught me a lot about fundraising, development. And I think he still works part-time, giving advice to the San Diego Zoo, Murray Newman, should I say I stole some ideas from him, his outdoor exhibit for killer whales. Our architects one up there to look at the outdoor killer whale exhibit. And we use that sort of approach when we designed the oceanarium to make it as naturalistic as possible. How would you describe the relationship with the aquarium and the other two institutions in Chicago that showed living animals and creatures, Lincoln Park Zoo, and Brookfield Zoo.
