Well, he was just a very dedicated man, very dedicated to the zoo business, known nationwide, certainly, especially in the Midwest, because he started the midwinter meeting of the zoo directors of Ohio, for example, that so many people wanted to come because they were having that meeting to join in that we finally ended up with it being a regional meeting of the American Association of Zoos and Aquariums. In 1960, you became the acting director of the Columbus Zoo because Earl Davis was recovering from some surgery.