In the beginning, he needed me very badly ’cause he knew absolutely nothing about animals. But as his five-year term that he reigned. You know, we went to AZA meetings and nobody would have anything to do with him. They didn’t like him, so I would be trying to introduce him to people. He was so different from the animal curators, from the directors that he had a difficult time getting to be well-known. Whereas I had been attending zoo conferences since 1960s. I was well-known. He became kind of jealous of my popularity.
