Well, I worked for Marlin Perkins. I came out of Lincoln Park and Marlin was I think the first person to take people back into areas of Africa, and Bill Hoff, my predecessor, came into Cincinnati and he developed a similar program and he expanded on what Marlin was doing. I mean, he opened it up, he brought in some travel agencies and gave him his program. Nobody was doing this in Cincinnati and at the time, I don’t think anybody was doing it in the zoo world. Maybe New York might’ve been doing something, but very few people were taking people out, making it popular. And Bill built on that program. In fact, my first trip to Africa as curator was 1967 and I took a group over and that was part of our travel program. He already just came back and then that became very popular, and became so popular it was taking a drain on our time and then we start letting it- Delegating it to curatorial staff and letting them go out.
