And these guys were really anxious, they were hungry for information and I got a very good feeling for ’em. And they also, they knew more about North American and South American mammals than I expected. I was really surprised they were pretty well informed these guys. And when I came home I wrote a little article for the Zoo Goer magazine called Reflections in a Javanese Garden or something like that, some kind of corny title. But it kind of put together my reactions and feelings about working with those people and that these guys need training and we have the ability to do it, we just don’t have the means to do it. And that’s what stimulated getting those grants to do the training program in zoo biology as well as working with Rudy. I hired Rudy when I was director, acting director at the zoo. So he had a federal position and then he could pursue that training full-time, which he did.
