He showed us his spring and there was a dead wood brat floating in the waters of his spring. He had a colony of my Otis little brown bats in the attic of his house. He showed us where the shoe moles were collected in the redwood groves. I set the traps there and I collected sh shoe moles. So I impressed Dr. Or again, because I went out and I collected the shoe moles that he wanted. So that was kind of how I spent my junior high school and high school years. And then I went to San Francisco State and got into zoology.
