Well, again, for the most part that was, the ability to the luck, if you will, that there I was sitting two hours away from San Diego and had all the money and had an interest in desert species, not everything they had was desert, but they had enough of them that I could ride their coattails of their programs, and Jim Dolan was, if anything a guy that loved, that would put critters with any other facility he could put critters with to help build a program. I mean that, so again, it was luck. I mean, if it had been some of the more traditional zoo guys at the time down the road, may not have been anywhere near as easy to get involved in serious work and working in endangered species and the magnitude that we were able to because I had Jim Dolan in San Diego down the road. And in turn, I tried to do what I could do to support them in what they did and what I wound up being able to do to sort of give back to San Diego was they had a very archaic by anybody’s standards, including their own I think, computerized system for keeping records and things at San Diego and it was proprietary to them. And that was at the time when we were just starting to do computerized studbooks and I was on the first board of what became ISIS and so forth, because he got me stick to the old history of Karen, Karen was this computer programmer person that had a degree in it. And most of my colleagues, including Bill Conway, hadn’t the faintest idea what to do with one of those things and didn’t wanna know, but I did and I understood it and I worked with Ulli Seal and a couple of other guys and we created, it would eventually, it was the first computerized database program and started computerizing studbooks that everybody else had been managing on pieces of paper. I, on the other hand at Living Desert had all these computers because computers were cheaper to buy than staff. And I understood that you could make them, you only needed one staff person and then you had a computer that could do all these other things that you didn’t need three staff people manually doing something, you needed one staff person and a computer.
