And I have had a wonderful ape keeper in Zurich Zoo, who was very instrumental in developing natural behavioral enrichment. And I got along very well with him, with one exception, and that was who should become the silverback in our gorillas. Because the Chertsey male, the unrelated Chertsey male, he was a bit younger than the females and so he had to fight for dominance and so it was a very harsh time. He bit the females, usually into the shoulders have open wounds. We never treated them, they healed within days or weeks. But he was for the keepers, the aggressive animal. And the smaller Stuttgart male, he was such a nice little fellow. And every time I was in holidays, my ape keeper could convince the director, separate the Chertsey male and leave the Stuttgart male with them.
