And once they got to know Ulie, and Ulie went and did a lot of work in reproduction in a lot of areas, in a lot of zoos, Ulie had people’s skills such that, you know, that that people would say, okay, I don’t really understand exactly what it is that you’re trying to do or what you’re trying to say, but if you need it done, if you need it done, and this is what it’s gonna cost me, I’ll do it, which is, I think pretty remarkable. Ulie, probably in my opinion, between ISIS, starting ISIS, ’cause he’s, he’s really the guy to responsible. I just kind of was the front man and the, and the fundraiser in the, in the very beginning and, and CBSG, which is, well, it’s now stands for conservation breeding specialist group, used to be captive breeding specialist group. We changed the name, hacked everybody off, but, and what we really want to do is change the name, the conservation biology specialist group. Cause it really doesn’t have a lot to do with, you know, specific captive breeding any anymore. It started out that way. And Ulie basically has had more positive, profound impact on the zoo world, on conservation, on the way we do conservation and zoo management than any other single human being, living or dead. And that includes, that includes all the big guys and both living and dead.
