When an actual fact to those of us who have grown up in that climate where manual restraint, where, where in the days where you might not have trusted the vet to knock it out, because, you know, there wasn’t a lot of zoo vets around with real experience. And so sometimes grabbing the animal was in the animal’s best interests. But now it’s like, oh no, we’ll get the vet to do it to so that somehow injecting them with a load of powerful drugs is less stressful when an actual fact, from a physiological point of view, it’s even more stressful. So there’s been this whole disconnect between the, the practical skills, being able to work in with animals, being able to read behavior. Oh, well, you know, we can’t work in without, we need to shut them away. I mean, Edinburg Zoo, we were going out, one of us at a time, bringing all the baboons in, you know, to walk them in of an evening during the winter. And one of us went out in enclosure with an entire trooper of baboons. And when you went out, the dominant male was sitting on this rock that you had to walk underneath and you learn not to make eye contact.
