And between the two secretaries not showing any interest in the zoo and Robinson out there not showing the interest in the zoo, in 18 years the zoo literally, and I don’t think I’m exaggerating here, the zoo literally went back almost to 1956 in the fact that the exhibits were deteriorating, the collection, it fell off to almost 1/2 of what it used to be, the staff was in bad shape. It was just a total mess. And when Spelman came in, she had a really tough job on her hands. And I really think that if this thing with the collection and the death of the red pandas and everything, she probably would have turned in to be a pretty good director if given another couple of years, but it didn’t happen. And so when Spelman resigned, we started searching for, well, we had another acting director and Dave Evans who was assistant secretary for science, and he wasn’t much better than Robinson ’cause he really didn’t care about the zoo that much. And he was there just kind of a stop gap. But we got a committee organized, selecting committee, and we interviewed a lot of directors of zoos and a lot of scientists. And it was kinda like, I don’t know, nobody could agree on any of them.