And I mean, you had to be somewhat delicate in working with her. I mean, she wanted to do something, we tried to get some changes in the panda operation and it took a lot of work to get some of the, keeping pandas together longer or not longer as the case may be. We worked at all this stuff out but Devra was really a good person to work with. I didn’t have as much contact with her as I would have liked to because at the time I worked with her for a year and a half, I think, with the pandas. And then I worked with her on golden lion tamarins, but the rest of the time, what I was involved with really didn’t touch on what she was working on. But I kept in touch with her.