Also Chris Coates, another big name in aquariums. But Roger, and we had an awful lot of correspondence. And he was really studying water snakes at the time. And we had, I guess six different species within 100 miles of Dallas. So we had these relationships. I think it was 1949, Mark, that the AA… Roger was the editor for the AAZPA, part of AIPE, American Institute of Park Executives. He put out the, I think it was the first roster, zoo roster.
