Yeah, and he replaced me at the National Zoo. And this man who loves elephants and devoted his life to elephants, he basically equated elephants in zoos to abused women. That they’re such a social animal that they need that contact with someone. And whether, you know, you’re Smokey Jones, or whoever, Hawthorne, Debbie, they were willing to put up with almost anything just to have the social contact. That stayed with me the whole time. So I find elephants problematic. I think you need someone like John, who’s got a commitment to elephants in an elephant program if you’re gonna have elephants and keep elephants. I know they built a new facility for elephants at the Milwaukee Zoo, ’cause Lincoln Park got out of elephants.
