And I remember he was one of the, Boese was one of the finalists at the, when Ted retired from the National Zoo, because I remember his name on the list. And that created problems for him later, (sighs) oh God, this is a complicated thing. Okay, I knew that there was going to be problems, because the Milwaukee County was responsible for a number of cultural organizations. And in the late 70s and early 80s was a difficult time in terms of, you know, with the tax base was going down, and all the rest.
