Well, Chuck Sedgwick was at San Diego Zoo. Earl Schobert was not full-time, but he did Busch Gardens in Florida. The other ones that were, I talked with Paul Chaffee out in California, Gordy Hubble down in Florida. There was a couple of part-time ones. Bud Herzog was part-time veterinarian at the Kansas City Zoo, and fairly close by. Jerry Thiebald was part-time veterinarian at Cincinnati Zoo. Those were ones that I would meet with. And then I always, I got involved in the Zoo Veterinary Medical Association, which was really just at its infancy then.