We lost 4 or 5 babies and you can’t put up with that. So we had top change something. So we were going to take all the babies and hand raise them at birth and we did. We got a lot of criticism for doing it but we gad babies that were alive. We never just had one baby alone. We always had more than one baby. At least 2 babies together when we were hand raising them so it meant bring babies from other zoos sending our gorillas to other zoos, doing whatever was necessary to ensure that babies were not raised alone. It started off keeping them till they were two or three years old by themselves then they would be able to handle themselves in a group.