But there were maybe 40 or 50 people there. And they were the prominent zoo directors of the time or up and coming. There’s only three, of that meeting, there’s only three still alive today. One is Bill Conway, sort of first met Bill Conway. And the other is Ted Reed, now the retired director of National Zoo. And the other is me, but all the other people there, including Marlin, and Moody Lynch and Earl Davis, director of Columbus, father of Don Davis director of Cheyenne Mountain later. So I got to meet all these guys and it was fabulous. I was just a punk kid, was a minuscule keeper, but Mr. Cully was so gracious introducing me to all these guys, boy, what a, and then I got to hold Colo.