And to visit with him and it was kinda like a long wooden shed and then out back were a few more sheds. And, boy, they was sending orders all over the world, but things were always getting loose. I mean, I had a very distant relationship with him, but things were always getting loose, including the European wall wizard, not only got loose, but became established here in Topeka, Kansas. Nobody thought they would survive the winters, ’cause some of our winters are severe, well below freezing, even below zero, snow on the ground for weeks at a time. And there is a thriving colony of European wall lizards living in Topeka, Kansas around the 21st in Gage area. And Joseph Collins with the Center for North American Herpetology in and Lawrence, Kansas. Every year he teaches a class, herpetology class at Washburn University. They have what they call the running of the lizards and they have all these young students go out and catch as many as they can to do a census and see how things are going, and so on.