And then he was a reptile guy. And when I was a keeper at Kansas City, and I would take the train to St. Louis, then I’d see him over there. So we were kinda the same generation and we became buddies. So as he progressed up the line, he was very helpful to me. But actually, and Pierre Fontane, oh my gosh, he was president of AZA or at least program chairman or something. I came in ’63. He asked me to come to the AAZPA National Conference in Houston and give a paper. My gosh and, which was a great honor and kind of scary. But he was extremely gracious and cordial, but everybody I met at the time, it was good.