Those were the deans. Those were the teachers. Those were the mentors. And of course, Carrie Muller, I forget Carrie. And so, someone who attended the meeting came back and told me, “Hey, they’re looking for a bird curator.” And I knew Gus, so I called him and I said, “I’m interested.” And we had an IWWA meeting, an International Wild Waterfall Association meeting, I think it was in November of that year. So, my wife and I went to the conference and I remember it was in Long Island, New York. And we sat down, we talked to Gus and we had breakfast and luncheons and it was a whole informal interview process basically. And later that year I was asked to come for an interview at Philadelphia, which I did.
