He lived there in San Diego, in the city, a guy named Chuck Shaw. Now Chuck Shaw was a year older than me, and Chuck later became the reptile curator at San Diego for many years. And then at his later years at San Diego Zoo, he became assistant director. Well, Chuck was deeply interested in reptiles and keeping reptiles, and he had been encouraged by, and worked at the San Diego Zoo. And by both Cy Perkins, Cy Perkins was a banker turned reptile curator. And there was a little mixed up there because Cy was a full-time employee at the zoo in charge of the reptile building that had just been built with WPA, federal Roosevelt sponsored government, WPA money that was to help bring us out of the great depression. And so it was a brand new reptile building that was only what four years old at the time. And Chuck worked there as a keeper on weekends for Cy Perkins.