Yes, and the way that worked, primarily the San Diego Zoo was essential. 80% of everything I did with mainland zoos was the San Diego Zoo. They were my friends, I was low on funds among other things, so I stayed as a house guest at Chuck Shaw’s, the reptile man, George Purnell, the mammal curator, or particularly K.C. Lin, K.C., the bird curator and his wife, Marie, were long-time friends. They would stay with us when they would come to Hawaii and we would stay with them. And well, as a family, we couldn’t stay with them because their house was too small, but they would put me up in the couch, down with his prize cockatiels. But the way that worked out, simultaneously, our zoo grew. And as we developed the nucleus animals, the elephant, the chimpanzees and the camel were just that, nucleus animals. So obviously, if you have a single animal, you want to have family groups, which was one of our primary objectives.
