I mean, once again, the keepers, there was primarily male, white male, probably 80%. There were a few women keepers at those days and some minorities, but it was most of them, most of the men were long term forties to fifties, maybe some, even 60 year old keepers that had been there for a long time. It was a unique experience. I know there was a lot of question about Saul hiring me, there was all kinds of talk about the Chicago mafia being at the zoo, ’cause Saul hired me, ’cause I remember was from Chicago and work with me, but it an amazingly interesting, depressing event at times. I remember one of the things that stuck out in my mind very early in my career there at San Francisco, initially just for me to learn the lay of the land, I was working for two or three days on every string with every keeper. So I could learn everything I can. I could learn about the people I could learn about the animals, I could learn the care of the animals. And I remember one thing that stands out with me, they had these old primate exhibits and all of the caging was the exact same thing.
