I knew of him, I knew the name. I had never met him, once again, it was so early in my career and going to conferences where you meet people. When he was the new director, and they used to have five, I think it was five regional conferences back in those days, he was in the east and he would probably have gone to the Eastern conference and then nationals, and I wasn’t doing nationals at that time. So make a long story short. I knew him because of his Lincoln Park experience.
