Well, one of the things I enjoyed most, I guess, about being a zoo director was getting to know other people in the zoo field. Marlin Perkins, the Bill Conways, whatever. Those people had just been kind of legends up until the time got a chance to meet them and visit with them. And it was fun getting to know them, and seeing their ideas and their outlooks on things. Because you mentioned him, what type of person was Marlin. What kind of outlook did he and Bill Conway.