Both masters and doctorate were at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. I only applied to three places. And because of my interest at that time in terms of going on in herpetological studies, I applied to Florida, Harvard and Michigan. Florida wanted some 200 bucks at that time. This was just the 50s. Florida wanted 200 bucks to look at my application and Harvard and Michigan offered me fellowships. So because a friend of mine Jim Moseman was already at Ann Arbor and assured me that that was a very comfortable place to continue my education, I went to Michigan and as I think I indicated that, and I’d been turned off on the bird side because my mentor at the museum had a nervous breakdown trying to complete the birds of South Carolina with Alexander Sprunt Jr. And a lot of it was in relation to the references in the book.