There wasn’t, you know, I’m one of the few psychologists that’s ever worked with great apes and not, never worked with a rat, a white rat. And there are a lot, you know, tons of psychological experiments have been done on white rats. We probably know more about white rats than we know about any other animal including human, ’cause so much has been done on white rats, and I never use white rats. I use apes and monkey, well some monkey stuff, but mostly great apes.
