His father had been a pathologist at Ohio State University. And Len became director at the Cleveland Zoo, and so he was a friend and a colleague. And there was a man down in Florida, Gordon Hubbell was another veterinarian who became a zoo director down there. And in fact, that just brings up an interesting issue that came to mind as I’m talking. There were three or four cases where zoo people ended up with veterinary directorships. And I’m not sure how or why the evolution occurred around the country as it did in my case. But the biologists in turn resented that some of them, they felt that they’d gone to get their academic training and they were good animal people, they were all zoology graduates. And why a veterinarian should step into the administrative slot when they could have and should have had it.