Well, this went along for a while, but eventually a divide appeared, our concern, my concern by that time becoming general director of the society, was with wildlife conservation and I was interested in a muddy boots approach in the field. The kind of work that George Schaller was doing by that time. George had just finished his gorilla work. The people at the university were increasingly interested in experimental animal behavior work some of which we felt inappropriate and most of which was inappropriate for the zoo’s collection. And they wanted to work under controlled laboratory conditions on problems that were not of significance, that did not produce a conservation product. We wanted to do work that would produce a conservation product. The best criteria of a conservation product is number.
