Well, I actually joined as an associate member in 1968, before there was a Living Desert, and I went to meetings ’cause you could go to meetings and the meetings were tiny, but you could go to the annual meeting. My first annual meeting that I went to was in ’67. ’68 meeting was in LA. That was really handy. So I was going to meetings and I was getting involved with ACA right away before there was a Living Desert and then when I got hired to be Living Desert’s director, Ron Blakely had just been hired at Wichita to design a zoo the same year, 1970. And so, Ron and I were, and I knew Ron from here. So, and I had kept in touch with him by going to the zoo meetings and occasionally coming back to Chicago and he and I were sitting in an ACA meeting in 1970, talking about the fact that we were arguing which one of us had the smallest collection because I had a couple of kangaroo rats and a kit fox and he had some ducks out in Wichita and that was it. But we were two zoo directors with essentially no animals.
