He was really good about that. And, and then I did, did I got involved, that’s when I started giving papers. ’cause Dr. Hubl was big in a CA, he had been president one year, but he was the head of the programs community for many years. He goes, Rick, you need to do, you need to do papers in a CA conference. You just can’t go, you know, you should do. So, okay. So I did three in a row. I did management at Hoofstock on motor exhibits in 1984. And then 1985 I did something on tapers.
