Well, when I came into the zoo world, the Americans just had founded SSP 82 and they presented this program at the ZA at that time called IUDG. And of course we wanted to do this in the same way. But the problem is mo at that time there was no European Zoo Association. Every country had National Zoo Association, French France, even two. So, so it was very difficult to bring the whole European community on one table. And after, after several years at the site of the conferences in of the mother conferences, Europeans sat together and discussed how to proceed Cetera. What nothing happened, at least there were three Zura ISTs from Amsterdam, Antwerp, and Rotterdam. They invited all ZA members of Europe for conference on establishing something like SSP.
