And it was like, oh yeah. And we did a very long, it was, I think it was a good two or three hours debate on Radio four, major UK radio State National Radio station. And I’m proud to say that I think that won the argument. But what was interesting was the zoo community, particularly in the UK when organizations like the Zoo Czech or which became the Born Free Foundation, when they came up, the, the policy of the, the British and Irish Zoo Association was ignore them, they’ll go away. And that never happened. And all they got was more column inches in the Sunday papers and whatnot. And, and what I’d been pushing for was a much more aggressive, let’s take these guys on, you know, when they, when they raise their head above the parapet to give them a proverbial slap and to take them on publicly. And so when my director was, at the time when he let me off the lead and I was able to do this, London Zoo was the main target.
