Well, I mean, John would, you have different relationships with different people, but different directors, with different curators and you John how he became the zoo director. I mean, he was the general curator and was promoted when Frank Thompson was the director of the zoo left. And it was, they both I think went to the school of Hard Knocks for the zoo training, and had been in the profession for years and just had their own styles of dealing with things. John was a director and you knew he was the director. And I was still very green initially in terms of what I knew about animals. I was working part-time as an animal keeper at Lincoln Park or full time for a very short period of time. And all of a sudden here I am a manager, a zoologist and a couple months later, I’m a general curator at the zoo, I’m number two. I mean, I had oodles to learn, which I couldn’t learn enough about, whether it be going to conferences.
