And when I was a graduate student in psychology at the University of Oklahoma, the person who I, my major professor who had worked at the Yerkes Lab for primates saw that the Oklahoma City, saw in the newspaper that the Oklahoma City Zoo had just got in two young orangutans, and off the top of her head she says, “Well, how would you like to do some work with them?” And I said, “Yeah, that would be great.” And that sealed my fate, I think. And so we did, we went to see the director of the Oklahoma City Zoo who, which was Warren Thomas. He had just come there at the time, hadn’t been there very long. And he was very amenable to letting us work with them. And so we started to build a program to, on intelligence in the great apes, ’cause they had other are great apes there at that zoo. They had chimps, and later they had gorillas. They didn’t have gorillas right at that time, but later on they did. But they had two young chimps that were easy to, you know, you could work with them pretty easy, and the two orangs, and we, that was when you could get grant money from the government real easy, there was a lot of grant money going around.
