Interestingly enough, my father was the contract veterinarian for what was then called the Portland Zoo. And he actually helped start the zoological society there, the friends group, but he did his work out there in the evening. So I would go out as a four and five year old and had my first elephant experience and seen kangaroos and so forth, but really did not see other zoos until we moved to Washington, DC. I remember stopping at St. Louis and it was later on as you’re growing up, you know, trips up to the Bronx Zoo, to Philadelphia Zoo, Baltimore, and you know, the nearby zoos on the east coast and on vacations, you know, the Florida. Saw Busch Gardens before it was open to the public and you know, the old zoo in Miami at Crandon Park and so forth, but it wasn’t until I actually, you know, was employed as a zookeeper that I started actively on weekends and my days off traveling to all the nearby zoos. I did spend a lot of time at the Kansas City Zoo when I was going to college at Kansas State. Don Deline was the director there. He’d worked for my father.