And Mr. Z, Hondoler came out of, originally a fertilizer company. And I became aware of him when I was still in St. Louis. And he traveled all over the world and developed great many connections, which he used to obtain animals and sell them to zoos. My impression of Fred, was that he tried hard to be ethical, and he was appointed by several AZA precedents as special advisor, animal dealer advisor to their programs. Fred was not a naturalist, he was not a conservationist. He was a businessman that happened to be trading in animals. I don’t think there are any Fred Z. Hondolers left in the United States these days. I doubt there’s room for them.
